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<head><meta charset="utf-8"><title>finalizing the project transition · t-lang · Zulip Chat Archive</title></head>
<h2>Stream: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/index.html">t-lang</a></h2>
<h3>Topic: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing.20the.20project.20transition.html">finalizing the project transition</a></h3>

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<a name="200597198"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing%20the%20project%20transition/near/200597198" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing.20the.20project.20transition.html#200597198">(Jun 11 2020 at 19:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>So I have to check on the RFC status -- but I'd like to talk about what it takes to "complete" this work. I guess I can start the move to merge soon, but one thing I thought might be usefulis to create some "sample" project proposals, to try and see if we can show how much length or depth we expect. We have a template now, so maybe people want to make some?</p>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="239881">@Josh Triplett</span> I think you had some ideas for a few sample projects.</p>
<p>I was also thinking that maybe we can leverage the <code>help-wanted</code> issue label here, i.e., to represent the "wishlists" we've been talking about. The idea would be that a "help-wanted" proposal is one where we are looking for someone who wants to pick up the idea and run with it.</p>



<a name="200597228"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing%20the%20project%20transition/near/200597228" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing.20the.20project.20transition.html#200597228">(Jun 11 2020 at 19:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm going to create a sample help-wanted proposal based on my <code>Function</code> trait idea</p>



<a name="200597456"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing%20the%20project%20transition/near/200597456" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing.20the.20project.20transition.html#200597456">(Jun 11 2020 at 19:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>I suspect it it longe than what we would really <em>need</em></p>



<a name="200597728"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing%20the%20project%20transition/near/200597728" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing.20the.20project.20transition.html#200597728">(Jun 11 2020 at 19:58)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116122">@simulacrum</span> <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/lang-team/issues/23#issuecomment-642897547">uh oh</a></p>



<a name="200597765"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing%20the%20project%20transition/near/200597765" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing.20the.20project.20transition.html#200597765">(Jun 11 2020 at 19:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>also, did I need to make <code>#t-lang/meetings</code> and <code>#t-lang/major changes</code> streams?</p>



<a name="200598064"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing%20the%20project%20transition/near/200598064" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing.20the.20project.20transition.html#200598064">(Jun 11 2020 at 20:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>there's not a triagebot.toml in the root indeed</p>



<a name="200598208"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing%20the%20project%20transition/near/200598208" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing.20the.20project.20transition.html#200598208">(Jun 11 2020 at 20:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>streams would be good. I can push the toml once that's done (meetings is irrelevant to this I guess)</p>



<a name="200607531"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing%20the%20project%20transition/near/200607531" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing.20the.20project.20transition.html#200607531">(Jun 11 2020 at 21:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>true, though if we're going to have zulip discussion of meeting proposals, it'd be good to have a stream, but let's not worry about that</p>



<a name="200607541"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing%20the%20project%20transition/near/200607541" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing.20the.20project.20transition.html#200607541">(Jun 11 2020 at 21:17)</a>:</h4>
<p><a class="stream" data-stream-id="243200" href="/#narrow/stream/243200-t-lang.2Fmajor-changes">#t-lang/major changes</a> created, <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116122">@simulacrum</span></p>



<a name="200607568"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing%20the%20project%20transition/near/200607568" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing.20the.20project.20transition.html#200607568">(Jun 11 2020 at 21:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>Okay will add a toml file soon</p>



<a name="200611915"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing%20the%20project%20transition/near/200611915" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Josh Triplett <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing.20the.20project.20transition.html#200611915">(Jun 11 2020 at 21:54)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> I did, yes; I'm planning to transform my C Parity wishlist into a set of proposals.</p>



<a name="200612078"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing%20the%20project%20transition/near/200612078" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing.20the.20project.20transition.html#200612078">(Jun 11 2020 at 21:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>OK, I'm going to keep converting stuff from the existing doc into issues</p>



<a name="200612678"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing%20the%20project%20transition/near/200612678" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing.20the.20project.20transition.html#200612678">(Jun 11 2020 at 22:01)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="120076">@BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand)</span> take a look at <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/lang-team/issues/19">https://github.com/rust-lang/lang-team/issues/19</a>, I'm trying to use it as a place to put regular summaries from meetings and things, which we can review during the lang team meetings</p>



<a name="200612834"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing%20the%20project%20transition/near/200612834" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing.20the.20project.20transition.html#200612834">(Jun 11 2020 at 22:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm debating what to do about these topics:</p>
<ul>
<li>dyn Trait stuff</li>
<li>grammar</li>
<li>never type</li>
<li><code>#[instruction_set]</code> attribute for per-function instruction set changes</li>
</ul>



<a name="200612841"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing%20the%20project%20transition/near/200612841" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing.20the.20project.20transition.html#200612841">(Jun 11 2020 at 22:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>all of which seem somewhat stalled</p>



<a name="200612862"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing%20the%20project%20transition/near/200612862" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing.20the.20project.20transition.html#200612862">(Jun 11 2020 at 22:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>should I make 'project group' entries for them, even if it's kind of a lie? (Also, at least for the dyn trait stuff etc, should we be prioritizing that work more than we are...)</p>



<a name="200612912"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing%20the%20project%20transition/near/200612912" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing.20the.20project.20transition.html#200612912">(Jun 11 2020 at 22:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess in that case maybe I'll just add the rust-lang/rust issue to the project board</p>



<a name="200612930"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing%20the%20project%20transition/near/200612930" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing.20the.20project.20transition.html#200612930">(Jun 11 2020 at 22:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>(I am personally strongly opposed to project group labeling non-project group things)</p>



<a name="200612952"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing%20the%20project%20transition/near/200612952" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing.20the.20project.20transition.html#200612952">(Jun 11 2020 at 22:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>As I commented on the various RFCs I really don't think grandfathering things into new terminology is helpful here</p>



<a name="200615145"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing%20the%20project%20transition/near/200615145" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing.20the.20project.20transition.html#200615145">(Jun 11 2020 at 22:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>Hmmm... I can see the value of tracking-issues for lang team efforts w/out an associated project group, but for project groups, I think it might make more sense for the history to be part of the project-group repo, and the lang-team issue can just link to that. We've already got some of it; it shouldn't be too hard to put it in a single document.</p>



<a name="200615469"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing%20the%20project%20transition/near/200615469" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing.20the.20project.20transition.html#200615469">(Jun 11 2020 at 22:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>Also, I notice that the lang-team repo uses GitHub pages. Do you think there would be value in publishing the info about the "active lang team efforts" there? That would require using a different mechanism from GitHub Issues, I suppose.</p>



<a name="200640139"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing%20the%20project%20transition/near/200640139" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Lokathor <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing.20the.20project.20transition.html#200640139">(Jun 12 2020 at 07:12)</a>:</h4>
<p><em>Just</em> speaking to <code>#[instruction_set]</code>: </p>
<ul>
<li>There were changes requested, and then changes were applied</li>
<li>Then one T-lang member said they'd <em>try to</em> review the updates, and one T-lang member said they <em>did</em> review the updates and that all the requested changes seem to be addressed (and that the RFC might be ready for FCP).</li>
<li>So actually it's not stalled at all.</li>
</ul>
<p>However, if a person <em>just</em> goes by the labels on the PR, there's no label to indicate any of this. The only way to know the current PR status is to carefully read the tail end of the comment thread.</p>
<p>On the other hand, the <code>winapi</code> crate has labels set up for "waiting on author" and "waiting on review", so it's easy to see with just a glance what the high level state of a PR is. The new "proposals" system should probably adopt some sort of similar system.</p>



<a name="200674381"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing%20the%20project%20transition/near/200674381" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing.20the.20project.20transition.html#200674381">(Jun 12 2020 at 14:07)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="120076">BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand)</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing.20the.20project.20transition/near/200615145">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Hmmm... I can see the value of tracking-issues for lang team efforts w/out an associated project group, but for project groups, I think it might make more sense for the history to be part of the project-group repo, and the lang-team issue can just link to that. We've already got some of it; it shouldn't be too hard to put it in a single document.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Yeah I was wondering about that. I think there's value in having tracking issues potentially (just to have cards and to integrate with our workflow), but I'm not sure if leaving <em>comments</em> on them is good, versus redirecting to some other place. That said, it may be that we use the <em>project board</em> as the central collection point, and the issues could live somewhere else.</p>
<p>However, I've observed that in practice we are not doing a very good job with the "preparing summaries to help keep the lang-team updated" thing. This seems to happen more "on the fly", either during the meeting or just before. This was the motivation for using comments, since it's lightweight and we can literally type in some notes on the comments.</p>
<p>Originally I imagined that we would prepare update that would get included in a weekly blog post or something like that but the overhead of doing that is too high, and quite frankly many groups don't have weekly updates worth reporting.</p>



<a name="200674424"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing%20the%20project%20transition/near/200674424" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing.20the.20project.20transition.html#200674424">(Jun 12 2020 at 14:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>This makes me wonder if a better approach would be to have a regular check-in every so often, but we try that for the compiler team and it's also not worked <em>that</em> great.</p>



<a name="200674807"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing%20the%20project%20transition/near/200674807" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing.20the.20project.20transition.html#200674807">(Jun 12 2020 at 14:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>Similarly, regarding what to put on <a href="https://lang-team.rust-lang.org">https://lang-team.rust-lang.org</a>, something else I've noticed from the compiler team is that whereas I started with lots of stuff on <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/compiler-team">https://rust-lang.github.io/compiler-team</a>, we've been moving towards putting that stuff on <a href="https://forge.rust-lang.org/compiler/index.html">https://forge.rust-lang.org/compiler/index.html</a></p>



<a name="200674837"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing%20the%20project%20transition/near/200674837" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing.20the.20project.20transition.html#200674837">(Jun 12 2020 at 14:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>so I found myself wondering what makes sense to put on the lang-team website vs forge</p>



<a name="200674857"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing%20the%20project%20transition/near/200674857" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/finalizing.20the.20project.20transition.html#200674857">(Jun 12 2020 at 14:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think forge is good for "policies and procedures" to some extent</p>



<hr><p>Last updated: Aug 07 2021 at 22:04 UTC</p>
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